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I was wondering if any one has any thoughts on the identity problem that I think ju-jitsu has. what I mean is in particular Gracie ju-jitsu. it appears as though BJJ is what everyone now recognises as being jujitsu and now so many other arts do cross training that they have now become jujitsu without realising it.
I’ve been looking into this a bit and I feel I have to set some records straight. Brazilian Ju-Jitsu(BJJ) is simply a more aggressive form of Judo, even though it is more violent it is still designed for the sporting arena.
Jujitsu however, was a BATTLEFIELD method of defending oneself against other samurai warriors. a samurai would need to know how to defend himself against armed, unarmed, multiple, single, trained and untrained opponents, with the intention of completly destroying their adversary. Jujitsu , as I see it , is the only art whose background and heritage allows for these violent ethics.
To try to explain my point, let’s look at aikido. this was designed as a morally acceptable way of defending against an attacker. the idea was that no matter how vile the attack against you, you should never lower yourself by retaliating with an equally abhorrent technique. however there are now so many schools of aikido that teach brutal and nasty defences that go against the very heart of the discipline. It has now become like jujitsu, and this is the case with many other arts. karate has become almost indistinguishable(sp?) from jujitsu because of cross training, hapkido is basically jujitsu. It is almost impossible to aquire information on jujitsu weapon techniques as these have been hijacked by other arts for example the jo has become an aikido weapon. jujitsu needs to be put back on track. it is much more than ground wrestling, more than simple self defense.
well i hope i have stirred up a few hornets and i would like to hear other thoughts, particularly ones who don’t agree with me. if anyone thinks i am wrong please state your arguments and convince me.
thanks for reading.
POSTED on behalf of Michael ( Coatbridge Ju-Jitsu Club,Scotland)
See: Forum 2005 Link on site
BJJ sport or art
I would like to whole heartedly agree with your statement, BJJ does not in anyway resemble anyother form of jujitsu the world over. Emphisis seams to have been placed on ground work and dirty tricks. Where has the ART gone in this so called Martial art, B ground fighting is a more apt definition. As with other forms the art has been bastardised to create a spectical for the arena, where fitness and brute strength will always win regardless of the technique.
Do you think the growing public interest in mixed martial arts / UFC etc and how Ju-Jitsu is now being considered “cool” (if Brazillian of course) by people who a few years ago had never heard of it, is making it more popular? Are there more new people joining your clubs under the false impression they’ll be fighting in the “Octagon” one day?
It seems Martial Arts are becoming very popular but certainly under the banner of being “mixed” leaving the traditional arts out in the cold.
You all speak of traditional and this and that are tradition. Walking is traditional, but what do you do you walk to you car, the bus, trains, and planes. If you were being traditional you would all stay walking. Traditional has changed, the Arts were made for a certain group in a certain place in time, surely we need to modernise the Arts as how many of you fight samurai warriors in our age??
We have many students from different Ju Jitsu forms, and they seem to get more power and better movemnet through what we teach. they become better at they own Art, people like Billy Doak.
My Chief Instructor Master Steve Tappin, went and done a day seminar with Billy and taught 120 Senior Ju Jtisu Black Belts.
I mention this as Billy Doak is always looking to improve his students and himself. The way a true Martial Artist should be. Always looking for better ways to improve and turn them into the complete Martial Artist.
An Martial Artist who can punch, kick, knee strike, head butt, ground fight etc.
Train hard and train safely.
OK we are back to the age old argument which we have everytime we as ‘Martial Artists’ have when we go and instruct in another disipline. That is whether or not you can class your art as an ‘art’ or a “Do” form. My classification on the subject goes like this. “If you want to get into a ring or square, toe to toe with an opponent and fight in your disipline to find a winner then you are taking part in a sport or ‘DO’ form. On the other hand if you train once, twice, four times a week and walk away having gained knowledge in your disipline and not gained broken bones and cut lips then it is an art you are learning”. If you read the white belt article on this site the partner/patterns work described in the TKD class will be the art form possibly taken from jujitsu as a lot of the top men in TKD originally studied jujitsu, and the sparring, fitness and pad work etc. is the sport element and the core of the TKD fighting system. The biggest problem we have as “Martial artists” is keeping our knowledge our system pure, not let it be watered down, basterdised or warped by what we see on TV, i have been to classes in my home town teaching so called Jujitsu which are showing wrestling moves for interest work. Ok move with the times but dont change things for change sake.
At the end of the day, it’s a MARTIAL Art, the Martial should be the primary thing. Some people have too much art and not enough martial.
As a system we do teach others Arts, but we are also in an Alliance that has around 25,000 members. From Wing Chun to Krav Maga. Check out the site’s.
BJJ is not a martial art. it is designed for the ring, for large bald (or excessively hairy)men who want to grapple and knock the seven shades of $h#* out of each other. it is not self defence either, it may well be effective against a single opponent but outside you simply do not have the luxury of spending ten minutes wrestling with someone. his or her mates no doubt will be kicking your head in while you spend your time getting into the top mount position. by the way i have seen the Gracie Street Defence videos and they are the biggest load of mince i have have ever wasted a retina on.
how many times has anyone tried to explain to some-one the difference between jujitsu and other arts? i remember a work collegue who said ” well, it’s all the same thing aintit?” and unfortunatley, he’s right. but he should n’t be. karate is not the same as jujitsu, they have different moral values. aikido is not the same either, judo is a game, BJJ is a more violent game, but that’s fine, just don’t try to palm them off as something they are not. let them be great on their own merits which i am sure are many.
cross training is excellent. it is a great way to get to know other ways of doing things, but when you open a club and show a throw, lock, hold, break, escape, weapon defense, just make sure you tell your students where it came from.
Hey I’m large, bald AND excessively hairy. I’d better find my nearest BJJ club!
Ju jitsu identity
Spotted a Ju Jitsersise class the other day. What!!!!! Jujitsu to music, claiming to be good for fitness and self defence. Any one else experienced things like this and what was it like.
the only time i have ever encountered music ina martial aets class is when i go to karate. it really puts me off especially when they play stuff with a heavy beat. i am there to practice karate, not dance, but i get on well with the instructor so it’s just a matter of trying to shut it out.
This thread seems to have taken a few turns already but initially it was about jujutsu identity.
That’s ju JUTSU not jitsu. Ju jitsu means gentle, yielding or compliant DAY. Ju jutsu is the gentle, yielding or compliant ART.
There. Identity problem solved!
I’d like someone to explain please what Jujutsu IS?
And ‘violent ethics’ as is pertains to the GENTLE ART?
Once I’ve had that clarified I’ll be more readily able to make comment on the rest of the issue.
Jujutsu to music? That’s a new one on me. Obviously we have a JJ instructor who had an opportunity and though ‘Why the hell not? If those Karate/TKD/Boxers can make a buck, so can I.’ Good on him.
Taebo, Boxercise, Kickboxercise are increasingly popular. So much so that I once couldn’t book a venue because the Boxercise instructor was on for 2 hours 6 days a week at peak time. (#@%$!)
My only concern is that some people consider that doing this means they have developed some fighting ability. Even scarier is that some of these ***-cise instructors also believe that they are passing on some sort of martial skills.
Martial arts to music isn’t new though. Whether it’s the Silat, Capoeira, Kalarippayattu (or other Indian Vedic martial arts), Iranian Wrestling, Okinawan Karate, Tai Chi or fighting arts of the Scottish Highlanders. They have all been associated with music or accompanied by music.
Music has a positive impact on performance. Music can narrow a performer’s attention and as a consequence, divert attention away from sensations of fatigue. It can alter arousal levels and can therefore be used as a form of stimulant prior to training/fighting or as a sedative to calm over-anxious fighters. Music is beneficial as a result of the similarities between rhythm and human movement; hence, the synchronization of music with exercise consistently demonstrates increased levels of work output among participants and the rhythmical qualities of music also emulate patterns of physical skills; therefore, music can enhance the acquisition of motor skills and create a better learning environment.
Enough from me though. Apart from to ask Shodan what’s wrong with me playing naff early 90’s techno in my class?
what martial arts have a place in realistic selfdefence?
self defence is the reason for all martial arts, so why are the so many arts that just dont work/class time wasted pointless press ups etc???
just want to hear thoughts on this???
it seem so many arts have lost there way or maybe its the instructors job to make his art grow!
so many style/teachers are like statue never moving!!
be like a tree grow learn, the style must fit to you and your body shape fitness etc.
please comment on these matters.
it interests me!!
Re: Ju Jitsersise
Taka Wrote: :
Enough from me though. Apart from to ask Shodan what’s wrong with me playing naff early 90’s techno in my class?
y’know, i had a funny feeling that was you. i think i must be an old fuddy duddy, maybe you should play some AIR GUITAR CLASSICS or even better yet the batman soundtrack……yeah!…that would be cool….heh..heh.
seriously though it must just be what we’re used to. if you have always trained to music then there won’t ever be a problem, i you are new to that then, it does seem kinda weird.
one other thing i thought JITSU and JUTSU were the same thing. i know we spell it JITSU, but i didn’t think i would get footwear inserted past my colon for spelling it like that.
after talking with Taka, i’m going to try and clarify just what MODERN jujitsu is as i try to practice it, and the difference between the other major arts. i won’t comment on arts that i have never experienced as this simply wouldn’t be fair.
Jujitsu (or jutsu) is a CIVILIAN form of a BATTLEFIELD martial art which emphasizes combinations of various techniques until the attacker or attackers are destroyed as quickly as possible.
Karate (any style) is a CIVILIAN martial art which uses kata based techniques to incapacitate the attacker or attackers as efficiantly as possible.
Aikido is a CIVILIAN martial art which emphasizes nuetralization of an attack without serious injury to the attacker or attackers.
Judo is a SPORT, based upon a martial art, which uses throws and some ground work against a single opponent.
these are the only arts which i feel qualified to comment on. each one has a different way of training, a different way of dealing with situations and a different ideaology.
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